Historic Radio-canada interview of Pierre E trudeau bu Denise Bombardier October 17, 1981

Here is a historic interview of Pierre Trudeau in 1981 on Radio-Canada (Archives)(Archives)

in the months before the final agreement between the federal government and 9 of the 10 provinces on the patriation of the constitution. Trudeau is in the midst of a campaign to promote the patriation of the constitution and the adoption of a Canadian charter of rights.

The interview raises many points that are still relevant today, including the legitimacy of the patriation process, given the absence of a referendum on patriation and the charter, the conflict with Bill 101, and Canada as a bilingual country.

A reminder of the facts. Not only did patriation take place without the consent of Quebec, but also without the holding of a referendum.

The following points should be noted:

REFERENDUM

1- On two occasions (minutes 7.51 and 24.05) Trudeau claims to have the support of 80% of the Canadian and Quebec population, which clearly, in his eyes, would justify unilateral patriation in the absence of an agreement with Quebec. But we know that when he subsequently proposed holding a referendum to resolve the impasse, a proposal that René Lévesque accepted, Trudeau and the other prime ministers, following the infamous night of the long knives, not only withdrew his offer of a referendum, but bizzarely invoked Mr. Lévesque's acceptance of holding referendums as a sufficient justification to proceed without Quebec.

This was a historic missed opportunity to test the popularity and legitimacy of patriation by a direct vote of Quebecers and Canadians. And ironically. many English-speaking political commentators considered this acceptance by Lévesque to hold a referendum as having justifyied proceeding without Quebec.

EXCLUSION OF IMMIGRANTS FROM LANGUAGE RIGHTS

2- Adopting a Charter in conflict with Bill 101 was the most controversial point of the federal project in Quebec. The interview suggests that Trudeau would be making a proposal that would, for Quebec only, exclude immigrants from the application of section 23 of the Charter on linguistic rights. See 11.58 (I don't ask any more than that we express it better (Charter art 23 and immigrants)); 12.27 (if they want to change the text on linguistic rights, I have no objection); and 14.55 (I'm willing to rewrite this article...if they have a better version).

And it subsequently came to pass. Here is the official text of section 59 adopted by the English Parliament which excludes immigrants from the linguistic rights relating to education provided for by the Canadian Charter of Rights:

CONSTITUTION ACT 1982 passed by the UK Parliament*                                                                                                                                                                         Commencement of paragraph 23(1)(a) in respect of Quebec                                                                                                                                                                   59(1)Paragraph 23(1)(a)** shall come into force in respect of Quebec on a day to be fixed by proclamation issued by the Queen or the Governor General under the Great Seal of Canada.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     (2)[Authorization of Quebec] A proclamation under subsection (1) shall be issued only where authorized by the legislative assembly or government of Quebec.         (3)[Repeal of this section] This section may be repealed on the day paragraph 23(1)(a) comes into force in respect of Quebec and this Act amended and renumbered, consequentially upon the repeal of this section, by proclamation issued by the Queen or the Governor General under the Great Seal of Canada.* Enacted in Schedule B of the Canada Act, 1982, c. 11 (UK), entered into force April 17, 1982.                                                                                                                                                          *The Canada Act (section 3) provides that: French version So far as it is not contained in Schedule B, the French version of this Act is set out in Schedule A to this Act and has the same authority in Canada as the English version thereof. (bold added)                                                                                                                                             **Language of instruction                                                                                                                                                                                                                       23(1)Citizens of Canada                                                                                                                                                                                                                               (a)whose first language learned and still understood is that of the English or French linguistic minority population of the province in which they reside, or                (b)who have received their primary school instruction in Canada in English or French and reside in a province where the language in which they received that instruction is the language of the English or French linguistic minority population of the province,                                                                                                                            have the right to have their children receive primary and secondary school instruction in that language in that province.

Section 59 would have been proposed by Trudeau at the request of Claude Ryan, a Liberal minister in Quebec who had played an important role in the 1980 referendum, and against the wishes of many influential members of Quebec's English-speaking community. The irony of all this is that influential members of this same English-speaking community had vigorously opposed the famous language tests for children in Robert Bourassa's Law 22 of 1974, while 18 years later they complained just as vigorously about the exclusion by Article 59 of similar language tests for children.

BILINGUISM IN CANADA

3- Trudeau justifies patriation and linguistic rights in the charter because he sees (14.20) and believes (20.20) in Canada as a bilingual country. Ms. Bombardier did not ask the fundamental question that arises from this - if the majority of the population does not see and do not believe that Canada is a bilingual country, does the philosophical justification for linguistic rights in the charter collapse? Contrary to popular belief, the words bilingual and bilingualism are not found in the Canadian constitution.

CONTEMPORARY IMPLICATIONS

Many points in the 1981 interview remain relevant today.

Quebec has not, to date, endorsed the patriation of the constitution. The legitimacy of patriation, whether from a procedural or substantive point of view, remains questionable, considering the absence of a referendum at the time, and that the bilingual character of the country which was already doubtful in 1982, is, with  immigration and assimilation, even more doubtful today.

It would be logical with the position taken by Lévesque at the time that any endorsement by Quebec be supported by a popular referendum in Quebec.

The main substantive obstacle to Quebec's endorsement of the 1982 constitution was and still is the limited scope of article 59 which excludes only part of the provisions of article 23 of the Charter on linguistic rights pertaining to education. Amending section 59 to make the entirety of section 23 non-applicable in Quebec would remove this obstacle. In future texts we will look at this question in more detail.

DOCUMENTS AND LINKS OF INTEREST:

Source:  Interview of Pierre Trudeau by Denise Bombardier on the Radio-canada program Noir sur Blanc17 10 1981.